{"id":1013,"date":"2004-03-25T03:12:01","date_gmt":"2004-03-25T03:12:01","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/"},"modified":"2014-02-02T06:59:55","modified_gmt":"2014-02-02T06:59:55","slug":"march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/","title":{"rendered":"Religious Postmodern Talking Points"},"content":{"rendered":"

In the last few years we have been inundated with information from within political circles that has been crafted by certain individuals but is intended to be heard by the general public.\u00a0 Sometimes this is a \u201ctrial balloon\u201d of information, floated in public conversation to evaluate its effect.\u00a0 Often it is a specific piece of information which is intended to feed the public only as much as the operatives want it to know.\u00a0 As time goes by, these \u201ctalking points\u201d become generally accepted information and begin to shape the way people think.\u00a0 Our postmodern culture is adept at the verbal symbolism even over factual substance.<\/span><\/p>\n

As believers, we are part of this postmodern culture but we utilize our own unique vocabulary in constructing our own verbal symbolisms.\u00a0 As time goes by, these \u201cReligious\u201d talking points become as accepted as gospel within religious circles.\u00a0 Within a few minutes one can list dozens of phrases and wordings that began for some individual\u2019s unique purpose but have now become household terminology.\u00a0 I cut my list down to a dozen and categorized them into three groups.<\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

Contemporary Talking Points<\/h3>\n

\u201cI\u2019m sorry if I offended you.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> We hear this every day from Christians and non-Christians alike.\u00a0 Janet Jackson used this phrase as her excuse for her indecent performance at the Super Bowl halftime.\u00a0 What has become obvious about those using this line is that they are making no admission that what they did was wrong.\u00a0 Rather than taking blame and apologizing, they are actually placing the blame on the offended ones.\u00a0 \u201cIf they weren\u2019t so morally weak, shallow people, they wouldn\u2019t have been offended.\u00a0 Who are they to judge me, anyway.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ronald Nash described similar people by writing, \u201cSuch people seldom try to argue that there is nothing wrong with cheating or stealing or lying.\u00a0 Such people attempt rather to find some way of showing that what they did doesn’t violate the principle or at least is a justifiable exception to the moral standard.\u201d1<\/sup> This has become a mantra for believers who are intent on doing what they want but wish to characterize those who object as weak brethren.<\/p>\n

\u201cIf you have a problem with it, you shouldn\u2019t do it.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong> This is Christian relativism.\u00a0 I have heard this used more than once as an answer to those who have changed their mind about a questionable practice and have left it.\u00a0 When some musicians have left the CCM movement due to its worldliness and have gone back to a more conservative approach to church music, this has become the response of their critics.\u00a0 I think this is akin to Hollywood\u2019s rating system where what is wrong for one age group is not wrong for another.\u00a0 Romans 14:22-23 concerns truly neutral issues such as which meat to eat or whether to work on Saturday.\u00a0 Paul has more direct language for culturally moral issues (e.g. Rom 12:1-2).<\/p>\n

Wendy Shalit, in a speech at Hillsdale College said, \u201dWhen I talk to college students, invariably one will say, ‘Well, if you want to be modest, be modest.\u00a0 If you want to be promiscuous, be promiscuous.\u00a0 We all have a choice, and that’s the wonderful thing about this society.’\u00a0 But the culture, I tell them, can’t be neutral.\u00a0 Nor is it subtle in its influence on behavior.\u201d2<\/sup><\/p>\n

“You can only help those in sin if you have been there yourself.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> Of course, this would eliminate Jesus as being the \u201cCounselor.\u201d\u00a0 The truth is, when a person falls into a sin, he\/she has stopped learning anything about the sin at that point.\u00a0 From then on he\/she is only a captive of it.\u00a0 The person who knows the most about how to help is the person who has resisted to a deeper level and has successfully overcome the temptation.\u00a0 The real danger in this thought is that it encourages Christians to sin so that they may be good counselors.<\/p>\n

In reading Oswald Chambers\u2019 devotional book this last year I read, \u201cThe saint who satisfies the heart of Jesus will make other saints strong and mature for God.\u00a0 The people who do us good are never those who sympathize with us, they always hinder, because sympathy enervates.\u00a0 No one understands a saint but the saint who is nearest to the Saviour.\u201d3<\/sup> \u201cCounsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out\u201d (Prov 20:5).<\/p>\n

\u201cWe have to reach people on their own level.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> Besides this being rather insulting to a thinking lost person, what does it say about the power of the Holy Spirit?\u00a0 Where exactly is it that we ought to depart from living or thinking one way (in which we are convinced biblically we should live or think) in order to reach the sinner?\u00a0 Do we know more than the Scripture?\u00a0 Are we more useful to the Holy Spirit now that we have changed into this \u201crelevant\u201d Christian?\u00a0 This cannot be more effective in evangelism.\u00a0 Paul\u2019s prayer for Philemon was \u201cThat the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus\u201d (Phile 6).\u00a0 The cults, not Christians, use stealth tactics.<\/p>\n

In 1 Corinthians 9:22, Paul\u2019s determination to be \u201call things to all men that I might by all means save some,\u201d is the conclusion to his explanation not to take wages from the churches but rather to work with his own hands.\u00a0 This is a willful humbling of oneself in order to be effective with people, not a willful violating of conscience or biblical principle.<\/p>\n

Francis Schaeffer was sometimes perceived to accommodate the culture.\u00a0 But in describing the downfall of the Church he wrote, \u201cIt is my firm belief that when we stand before Jesus Christ, we will find that it has been the weakness and accommodation of the evangelical group on the issues of the day that has been largely responsible for the loss of the Christian ethos which has taken place in the area of culture in our own country over the last forty to sixty years.\u201d4<\/sup><\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

Philosophic Talking Points<\/h3>\n

\u201cWe must continue to change if we are to stay relevant.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong> This philosophy proposes that we can live in a constant state of change to be relevant to a culture that is constantly changing.\u00a0 But this is like trying to say that there is no such thing as absolute truth.\u00a0 The great postmodern dilemma is to try to make a definite statement about the belief that nothing can be definite.\u00a0 This religious postmodern talking point is also caught on the horns of an opposite dilemma.\u00a0 How can we adopt a state of constant change in order to convince people that there is a definite set of Christian beliefs?<\/p>\n

When we need to make a statement in support of change, however, we become much like C.S. Lewis\u2019 observation, \u201cWhen changes in the human mind produce a sufficient disrelish of the old Model and a sufficient hankering for some new one, phenomena to support that new one will obediently turn up.\u00a0 I do not at all mean that these new phenomena are illusory.\u00a0 Nature has all sorts of phenomena in stock and can suit many different tastes.\u201d5<\/sup><\/p>\n

\u201cWe cannot force our values on anyone.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> Why not?\u00a0 We do it all the time beginning with our children and going right through the university.\u00a0 Now if we mean that we cannot force a mind to believe what it has determined not to believe, this may be true.\u00a0 But we do not hear it in that fashion.\u00a0 What is usually meant is that we cannot put someone in a forced situation and have them learn or become convinced of anything (Of course, not everyone who needs to be forced, needs to be convinced, as in traffic laws, but the human nature does not want to learn many things which it needs to learn).\u00a0 The amount of force used in learning depends on the ability of the learner and the urgency of the truth to be learned.\u00a0 Teaching children not to play in fire requires different force than teaching adults to like okra.\u00a0 When it comes to moral truths, if they exist at all, by their nature they force themselves on us all.\u00a0 Exam day will not accept personal excuses.<\/p>\n

\u201cCulture is morally neutral.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> In trying to find a way to use all of the world\u2019s cultural expressions as our own we often hear it put in this fashion.\u00a0 It is especially applied to the arts.\u00a0 Rick Warren has repeatedly said that there is no such thing as Christian music, only Christian lyrics.\u00a0 He even says that God invented music.6<\/sup> But the fact is that God created material from which fallen man has invented his music.\u00a0 All that culture is, after all, is the product of what fallen man does.\u00a0 He can do some things well on the outside, but always with a self-centered bent on the inside.\u00a0 As many have noticed, culture is actually the incarnation of our religion, the outworking of what we believe.7<\/sup> This is no where as true (perhaps highlighted to a greater degree) as in music.\u00a0 Music is an emotional art that cannot be detached from the soul of the inventor.\u00a0 It is only as morally neutral as a man\u2019s soul is morally neutral.<\/p>\n

\u201cYou have been inconsistent too.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong> We heard this from the oval office when immorality was defended by pointing out that famous men in history had probably done the same thing.\u00a0 This is a kind of \u201clowest moral appeal\u201d argument.\u00a0 When one\u2019s fault is exposed, he quickly turns the table on the questioner and points out equal inconsistencies.\u00a0 Such a person has no intention of changing his actions, rather, he wants everyone to be free to do as they please.\u00a0 Allan Bloom wrote, \u201cThe fact that there have been different opinions about good and bad in different times and places in no way proves that none is superior to others . . . On the face of it, the difference of opinion would seem to raise the question as to which is true or right than to banish it.\u00a0 The natural reaction is to try to resolve the difference, to examine the claims and reasons for each opinion.\u201d8<\/sup><\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

Theological Talking Points<\/h3>\n

\u201cYou can\u2019t please God by keeping rules.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong>The explanation sometimes sounds like a new form of sinless perfection.\u00a0 \u201cSince all of our sins are forgiven, past, present and future, we should never feel under obligation to strive in overcoming sin.\u201d\u00a0 This is mixing justification with sanctification.\u00a0 Just because, in justification, we cannot do good works to gain salvation doesn\u2019t mean, in sanctification, God doesn\u2019t ask us to do good works.\u00a0 Some people only mean by this, rules that men impose that are extra-biblical.\u00a0 But biblical admonitions are rules as well.\u00a0 And so is our valid application of biblical principles to all areas of our lives.\u00a0 In fact, all morality is obedience to God\u2019s moral laws and in effect is rule-keeping.\u00a0 The obligation to follow such moral laws is right, regardless of how they may or may not be enforced.<\/p>\n

\u201cGod accepts you just as you are.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> This is somewhat like the previous point in that it mixes our standing in Christ with our personal walk with Christ.\u00a0 But there is more here.\u00a0 God cannot accept a sinner as he is.\u00a0 Though we come \u201cJust as I am without one plea,\u201d we must come because we realize (through the repentance process) that we must change or be lost.\u00a0 That is why the sinner must have his sins forgiven through Jesus Christ, that is, he must change if God is going to accept him.\u00a0 Similarly, once a person becomes a believer, he starts on a road of progressive sanctification where he is continually being conformed to the image of His Son.\u00a0 God is not pleased with the Christian who doesn\u2019t grow and progress in his\/her Christian walk.\u00a0 Thank God He doesn\u2019t accept us as we are until we get to heaven where, \u201cwe shall be like him for we shall see him as he is\u201d (1 Jn 3:3).<\/p>\n

\u201cYou can\u2019t give me chapter and verse.\u201d\u00a0 T<\/strong>his also follows in the same vein as the previous two.\u00a0 It sounds good to say that everything we are obligated to do must be found in so many words in the Bible.\u00a0 But some use this as a justification of sin and a refusal to make biblical application.\u00a0 How are we supposed to take a statement like, \u201clay apart all filthiness\u201d (Jas 1:21)?\u00a0 Does that only apply to things we can find specifically described in the Bible, or does it also apply to whatever is filthy in our life?\u00a0 Is taking God\u2019s name in vain only true of those expressions we find in the Bible?\u00a0 This seems to be a sort of biblical minimalism where we apply the Bible downward to its smallest possible import rather than applying it upward to every area of our lives.<\/p>\n

\u201cWho are you to judge what I do?\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong>Often the talking points are borrowed from the very words of Scripture but the real meaning is replaced by subjective meaning.\u00a0 Though the Bible commands us not to judge motives (James 4:11; Rom 14:3), it commands us to judge actions (1 Cor 5:12-13; Gal 4:30).\u00a0 People use this today to mean that we can\u2019t voice any disagreement with what they do.\u00a0 In a postmodern mind, disagreement is a form of hate.\u00a0 It sees the one disagreeing as being arrogant and condescending, which of course is a dodge to avoid having to answer for one\u2019s actions.\u00a0 We are in desperate straits if we cannot discuss the merits of our actions.<\/p>\n

Os Guinness wrote, \u201cOurs is a world in which ‘Thou shalt not judge’ has been elevated to the status of a new eleventh commandment.\u00a0 Many people today consider judging evil to be worse than doing evil.\u00a0 But whatever the antipathy toward ‘judgmentalism,’ there are times when the widely acclaimed attitudes of relativism, tolerance, and nonjudgmental acceptance just won’t do.\u201d9<\/sup><\/p>\n

Therefore . . .<\/h3>\n

We ought to apply the Bible to all areas of life, and to see those valid applications as God\u2019s will.\u00a0 Francis Schaeffer wrote some years ago, \u201cYou can carry out your intellectual discussion to the end of the game, because Christianity is not only true to the dogmas, it is not only true to what God has said in the Bible, but it is also true to what is there, and you will never fall off the end of the world.\u201d10<\/sup><\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

\n<\/sup>Notes:<\/address>\n
1. Ronald Nash, Faith and Reason (Grand Rapids:\u00a0 Zondervan, 1988) 158.<\/address>\n
2.\u00a0 Wendy Shalit, \u201cModesty Revisited,\u201d Imprimis, March, 2001.<\/address>\n
3.\u00a0 Oswald Chambers, My Utmost For His Highest (New York:\u00a0 Dodd, Mead & Co., 1935) 223.<\/address>\n
4.\u00a0 Francis Schaeffer, The Great Evangelical Disaster (Wheaton:\u00a0 Crossway Books, 1992) 37.<\/address>\n
5.\u00a0 C.S. Lewis, The Discarded Image (Cambridge:\u00a0 Cambridge University Press, 1998) 221.<\/address>\n
6.\u00a0 See for example, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2002) 65.<\/address>\n
7.\u00a0 See for example, T.S. Eliot, Christianity and Culture (New York:\u00a0 A Harvest Book, 1949) 101.\u00a0 Also see Ravi Zacharias, Deliver Us From Evil (Dallas:\u00a0 Word Publishing, 1996) 82.\u00a0 See also the above quote by Wendy Shalit.<\/address>\n
8.\u00a0 Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind (New York:\u00a0 Simon & Schuster, 1987) 39.<\/address>\n
9.\u00a0 Os Guinness, The Long Journey Home (New York: Doubleday, 2001) 56.<\/address>\n
10.\u00a0 Francis Schaeffer, He Is There And He Is Not Silent (Wheaton:\u00a0 Tyndale House, 1972) 17.<\/address>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In the last few years we have been inundated with information from within political circles that has been crafted by certain individuals but is intended to be heard by the general public.\u00a0 Sometimes this is a \u201ctrial balloon\u201d of information, floated in public conversation to evaluate its effect.\u00a0 Often it is a specific piece of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_crdt_document":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"","filesize":"","filesize_raw":"","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[123],"tags":[15,135,148,137],"class_list":["post-1013","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-articles","tag-bible","tag-culture-worldview","tag-modernism-postmodernism","tag-values-manners-morals"],"yoast_head":"\nReligious Postmodern Talking Points - Aletheia Baptist Ministries<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Religious Postmodern Talking Points - Aletheia Baptist Ministries\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In the last few years we have been inundated with information from within political circles that has been crafted by certain individuals but is intended to be heard by the general public.\u00a0 Sometimes this is a \u201ctrial balloon\u201d of information, floated in public conversation to evaluate its effect.\u00a0 Often it is a specific piece of […]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Aletheia Baptist Ministries\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/AletheiaBaptist\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2004-03-25T03:12:01+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2014-02-02T06:59:55+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/04\/Book-Reviews-1024x1024.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1024\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1024\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Rick Shrader\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Rick Shrader\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"13 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Rick Shrader\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/#\/schema\/person\/588b75c574dc86d40cf5fb13774181b2\"},\"headline\":\"Religious Postmodern Talking Points\",\"datePublished\":\"2004-03-25T03:12:01+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2014-02-02T06:59:55+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\"},\"wordCount\":2559,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"Bible\",\"Culture \/ Worldview\",\"Modernism \/ Postmodernism\",\"Values \/ Manners \/ Morals\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Articles\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/aletheiabaptistministries.org\/Blog\/march-qreligious-postmodern-talking-pointsq\/\",\"name\":\"Religious Postmodern Talking Points - 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